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Syrian Muslim refugees to resettle in our area

    • 873 posts
    51
    June 24, 2015 12:16:35 AM PDT
    DickBoyd said:
     Is there another side to the immigration story? From what I see, employers are opting for cheap labor. Either by exporting the job, or by importing cheap labor. I have not seen anything from either conservative groups or liberals to promote job development for U.S. citizens. Electric Utilities in California are using H-1B Visas to import cheaper labor. U.S. citizens that are being displaced are asked to train their replacements. Why Congress? Because Congress fails to act. Other than campaign press releases that portray U.S. companies as bottom feeding crooks.
    AMEN!
    • 4977 posts
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    June 24, 2015 9:44:09 AM PDT
    Well said Dick. It's supposed to be illegal to hire illegals but I guess if your campaign contributions are large enough you get a pass. New York just placed severe limits on background screening. Think about that when you hire someone to work inside your home or use services like a daycare. We live in a strange time and I wonder where it will end or what it will take to "right the ship" if that's even remotely possible. Even my friends that are opposite of me don't like the state of things in America. Fasten your belts, it might get bumpy!
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    June 24, 2015 10:47:51 AM PDT
    Domestic immigration. Including the teachers, police, firefighters, government employees who can't afford to live in the county that employs them. Look around at the window stickers on the cars in Plumas Lakes and East Linda. How many have parking stickers, or indication that the car is primarily driven to Placer, Nevada, Sacramento, or other county?
    What does "affordable housing" mean? Does it mean the plumbers, electricians, trades people that work in Northern Virginia can afford to live in West Virginia and commute? Does it mean that housing prices in the cities where the employment is does not have housing that workers can afford?
    • 2563 posts
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    June 24, 2015 10:53:46 AM PDT
    Domestic immigration, the equity immigrant. Another category of immigrant is the equity immigrant. Retires from a well paying job in a large city. Has a lot of equity in the home. Sells the home and moves to the country, thinking they have enough money from their home equity to keep their city lifestyle.
    Well, maybe they have the money, but the place they move doesn't offer the lifestyle things of their previous residence. Police? Fire? Ambulance? School? Roads? Medical? Entertainment? Shopping?
    • 2563 posts
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    June 24, 2015 11:02:22 AM PDT
    "Illegal" is in the eye of the bee holder. Think of Visas as passes for visitors. There is no intent to grant citizenship. The Visa holder is here "legally".
    Supposedly for a temporary period. Where do they live when they are here? Farm workers in farm labor camps. A spectrum of housing choices. Butte County with new construction that rivals middle class single family homes. Sutter and Yuba Counties have a regional approach that includes mobile homes, trailer parks, multi-family apartments. Isolated bunk rooms. Out of sight, out of mind. Why are they here? Maybe because the employer can hire them cheaper than domestic labor?
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    June 24, 2015 11:04:30 AM PDT
    Hiring illegals? No problem, just make them legal. If they can't be made legal, make it look like they are legal. Visa? Temporary residency?
    • 4977 posts
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    June 24, 2015 11:18:17 AM PDT
    We're paying for their healthcare and education regardless of legal status!

    Along the lines of you people moving to the country: Some people move because they want to, some because family moves them.
    Many times they don't like it because they don't know the mailman, policeman, doctor, guy at the store, where to find stuff in the places they visit, the barber or hairdresser....all that familiarity is gone. Can be much harder on seniors.
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    June 24, 2015 11:45:57 AM PDT
    You can check on this: From what I know, farmers do not have to take FICA or income tax from an illegals pay. It's always been like that, at least in butte county, unless it's been changed. Farmers have very special priveleges. No money for fica is why illegals work on farms. No paper trail, has nothing to do with menial jobs, that noi one else wants. It's all in the money. Check this ourt, I believe you'll find it to be true, UNLESS, of course, it has been changed, which I doubt.
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    June 24, 2015 11:52:57 AM PDT
    coolbreeze said:
    You can check on this: From what I know, farmers do not have to take FICA or income tax from an illegals pay. It's always been like that, at least in butte county, unless it's been changed. Farmers have very special priveleges. No money for fica is why illegals work on farms. No paper trail, has nothing to do with menial jobs, that noi one else wants. It's all in the money. Check this ourt, I believe you'll find it to be true, UNLESS, of course, it has been changed, which I doubt.

    My guess is that farmers operate at arms length from the laborers. Farmers contract with a labor group and the labor group hires the individuals. So the workers are not "illegal". All the eyes are dotted, all the tees are crossed. The workers are here legally. Some on Visas, some on family ties. The contractor ensures that his workers are "legal".

    Consumers don't care as long as produce can be bought at cheap prices.

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    June 24, 2015 11:56:00 AM PDT
    coolbreeze said:
    You can check on this: From what I know, farmers do not have to take FICA or income tax from an illegals pay. It's always been like that, at least in butte county, unless it's been changed. Farmers have very special priveleges. No money for fica is why illegals work on farms. No paper trail, has nothing to do with menial jobs, that noi one else wants. It's all in the money. Check this ourt, I believe you'll find it to be true, UNLESS, of course, it has been Ichanged, which I doubt.

    Who shoulod check? A Grand Jury? Where to begin? Audit farm payrolls? Check wiht EDD? BOE, FTB? IRS? When everyone is in charge, no one is in charge.

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    June 24, 2015 1:51:59 PM PDT
    Obviously, I didn't present that right....don't worry about it.
    • 2563 posts
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    June 24, 2015 2:10:02 PM PDT
    http://www.carnahanlaw.com/payroll/agriculture.html
    • 1133 posts
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    June 24, 2015 9:56:36 PM PDT
    >>> Now a couple of questions for you, what about all the poor and suffering that are left behind? Just how many are we supposed to bring here? Is there any limit in your opinion?

    A: The limits are set and held to and contrary to popular misinformation the U.S. turns away refugees quite frequently. The three most notable which come to mind were Cuban, Haitian and Hmong. Hmong are probably the most shameful instances as after all the help they gave our troops in Vietnam our military and Govt. promised they would be protected from the VC and brought to America, and instead we left them behind to fend for themselves (that is conveniently NOT taught in school American History).

    >>>Why are we leaving nearly all the Christians behind, for them (including women and children) to be slaughtered?

    A: We are no more leaving Christians behind than we are Muslims. If you think there are no Christian refugees being brought to the U.S. you are being deluded. What do you think makes headlines and is more controversial? Christian Refugees of Muslim Refugees who are already pre-judged based simply upon their choice of faith and a plethora of misinformation. Have you also considered that the Christian factions over there may also be engaged in the same type of horrors? Of course you haven't, Christians have never now or ever done any of those things according to you.

    >>>>Do you not understand that these people have vowed to convert the whole world (including America) to the Muslim faith and kill anyone that doesn't convert to the Muslim faith, bow to Allah and submit to sharia law?

    A: My understanding is that is one version of Islam and not the mainstream interpretation although it is the one currently we see because of the efforts of a violent faction which color the whole picture inaccurately. You can't tell me this is what the Muslim faith teaches because, like Christianity, there are different versions and what we are seeing in the extremist version. I find it Psychologically interesting that is the version you cling to. You confuse my tolerance as indulgence because you do not understand tolerance. I could make the same argument for you wanting to take the U.S. backward in progress. Your world view is any one who is NOT Christian is an enemy, and your fear of them is driving your morality which will sooner or later bring you to a moral dilemma of to act openly against the enemy through any means possible because your version of your faith demands it (including taking a life directly if the opportunity presents itself) because that is the only door your politics and faith combined with fear leaves open for you. It is the end result (regardless if you enact it or not you have accepted that as an acceptable and viable action). The alternate door is an experience like the apostle Paul where you will be confronted by your conscious in all it's horror and either change it or succumb to it. God have mercy on your Soul in either case.
    • 873 posts
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    June 24, 2015 11:32:26 PM PDT
    Wolf, You didn't answer any questions regarding how many we should bring in or if there is a limit as to how many in your opinion? You talked of Vietnam instead, and you are correct, as always our government made a lot of promises it couldn't keep. Which is a good reason for our government to stay out of other nations issues.

    You are mistaken, Obama is going out of his way to not take Christian refugees from Syria and has aggessively pushed for the acceptance of Muslims. The number of Muslims in the U.S. in 2008 was 1.3 million, in 2012 it had doubled to 2.6 million, and is now today estimated to be 7 million.

    Not sure what you mean by plethora of misinformation, are you saying they didn't twice try to blow up the World Trade Center, succeeding the second time? They did not bomb the Boston Marathon? A Muslim did not kill 13 of our soldiers and wound 30 more at Fort Hood? They did not kill our people in Benghazi? Are you really saying none of these happened, are you kidding me? Have you not seen the pictures of the Muslims with our citizens heads being held up after they cut them off? What is that, just misinformation? As far as the Christians engaged in the same types of horrors, I have only seen videos of them having their heads cut off for not converting to Muslims, not the other way. The Christians have had their bloody past, most notably the crusades, once again though, because the Muslims were trying to dominate the world back then.
    http://drrichswier.com/2015/02/02/obamas-massive-resettlement-6-million-muslims-u-s/

    You state it is your understanding that, that is one version of Islam, how many versions are there? You say the efforts of a violent faction makes the picture inaccurate, will that's the faction I'm worried about, not the peaceable ones. Unfortunately, they all look the same, you can't tell the violent from the non. Do you see Buddists killing our citizens? Do see Jewish people killing our citizens? do you see Sikhs killing our people? Quakers or Scientologists? No only one religion MUSLIMS!!

    In ending I would say not all Muslims are violent, but a good pecentage are, and until they can act civilized I do not want them here. I am happy with the Judeo-Christian nation that we have always had and were founded on. Also, please understand God will not have mercy on your soul because you let Muslims or any other religion in our country, it is only if you accept His only begotten Son Jesus Christ!
    • 873 posts
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    June 25, 2015 12:16:59 AM PDT
    coolbreeze said:
    You can check on this: From what I know, farmers do not have to take FICA or income tax from an illegals pay. It's always been like that, at least in butte county, unless it's been changed. Farmers have very special priveleges. No money for fica is why illegals work on farms. No paper trail, has nothing to do with menial jobs, that noi one else wants. It's all in the money. Check this ourt, I believe you'll find it to be true, UNLESS, of course, it has been changed, which I doubt.
    I had a family member that worked in an ag operation for many years in payroll and they said FICA and taxes were always taken out legal or not, as it was/is the law. Hope this helps with your question.
  • 66
    June 25, 2015 6:39:35 AM PDT
    It’s so wonderful and heart-warming to see our fellow neighbors promoting our county as bigoted, racist, intolerant and fearful of anyone who’s not a white, male, conservative, Anglo-Saxon Christian.

    I’m sorry, but this thread is chock full of some of the scariest thinking and most inflammatory posts that I’ve ever read on this site! Anyone that’s proud of these horrible posts has been brainwashed, is living in a bubble and has serious problems.

    It’s threads like these that fuel and incite some nut to take their semi-automatic and slaughter innocent people! Great, make Yuba County the next Charleston or Oklahoma City! You should be ashamed!
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    June 25, 2015 8:06:33 AM PDT
    Kibbiefolks, you've corrected my old education,thanks
    • 631 posts
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    June 25, 2015 9:44:41 AM PDT
    YFP, the first attack on the World Trade Center (6 killed, 0ver 1000 injured) didn’t happen, 911 (2977 killed) didn’t happen, the Boston Marathon bombing (3 killed, 264 injured) didn’t happen didn’t happen, all of the atrocities being committed in Africa and the Mideast aren’t happening, the problems Europe is having with Muslims isn’t happening and the millions supporting these nonevents by demonstrating aren’t demonstrating. Do you two really believe what you write? But of course you are a progressives, which means you are smarter, more tolerant, more compassionate, better educated with the true understanding of what is best for the “bigoted, racist, intolerant and fearful of anyone who’s not a white, male, conservative, Anglo-Saxon Christian.” Then you wrote: “I’m sorry, but this thread is chock full of some of the scariest thinking and most inflammatory posts that I’ve ever read on this site! Anyone that’s proud of these horrible posts has been brainwashed, is living in a bubble and has serious problems.

    It’s threads like these that fuel and incite some nut to take their semi-automatic and slaughter innocent people! Great, make Yuba County the next Charleston or Oklahoma City! You should be ashamed!”

    You are right, I guess we should get in lock step with you and support the progressive left agenda like the one below! Who is really brainwashed, living in a bubble and should be ashamed?

    The Southern Poverty Law Center has posted a list of “Women Against Islam” which targets twelve prominent conservative women who are known to speak out against radical Islam, calling them “the most hardline anti-Muslim women activists in America.” Judicial Watch described the list as “a starter kit” for jihadists to go after the women like Floyd Corkins went after the Family Research Council in August of 2012.
    A few years ago a gunman received a 25-year prison sentence for carrying out the politically-motivated shooting of the Family Research Council (FRC) headquarters after admitting that he learned about the FRC from the SPLC “hate map.” Prosecutors called it an act of terrorism and recommended a 45-year sentence.
    The SPLC routinely smears conservatives as “haters” for holding positions that are contrary to those of SPLC on social or political issues. Last February, for example, they put noted pediatric neurosurgeon and Republican candidate for president Dr. Ben Carson on an “extremist list” because of his pro-traditional marriage stance, opposition to ObamaCare, and support for a flat tax. They placed him alongside genuine extremists like the KKK, Neo-Nazis, and the Westboro Baptist Church and backed down only after a public outcry ensued.
    Judicial Watch noted that the Obama Justice Department has partnered with the SPLC on diversity training.
    The SPLC describe the women on their hate list as “a mixed bag of bloggers, politicos, authors, TV personalities, radio talk show hosts, and leaders of anti-Muslim organizations.”
    The profiles are accompanied by caricatures that make many of the women look evil or insane.
    The women targeted by the SPLC are critics of radical Islam and Sharia law, which the European Court on Human rights has repeatedly ruled is “incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy.”

    This is how you promote diversity and tolerance by the left!!
    For the rest of this article see:

    http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/06/23/splc-issues-hit-list-of-12-conservative-women-who-speak-out-against-radical-islam/
    • 1133 posts
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    June 25, 2015 12:56:32 PM PDT
    >>>Wolf, You didn't answer any questions regarding how many we should bring in or if there is a limit as to how many in your opinion?

    I didn't answer that question because I don't have an answer to it. The only people who do are the ones working directly with that. As to my own personal idea of numbers, I would have to say it depends on the situation and circumstances. Each instance is different.

    By a plethora of misinformation, I mean information which is gleaned from one or a small group of individuals and applied to the whole group as a whole. The idea that just because one or a group of people are violent, makes the whole religion/people savage. Misinformation of going to one religion to get information about a different religion and expecting the answer to be unbiased and truthful (i.e. Christianity is going to teach me about Islam and I am going to come away with an accurate picture what Muslims are all about?) For instance, the Crusades were not about Muslin domination they were about genocide under the blessing of the church at that time. The pillage from the holy lands funded several well know cathedrals constructions back in Europe as well as setting the world back hundreds of years in lost valuable information in mathematics, science, navigation and world exploration and history all because it had been written and compiled by Muslims/Islam. There are as many versions of Islam as there are Christianity including non violent approaches to reform, such as striving to improve the world intellectually and through Education not for the sake of Islam but for the sake of a better world in which Islam can proudly take part.

    >>>Unfortunately, they all look the same, you can't tell the violent from the non. Do you see Buddists killing our citizens? Do see Jewish people killing our citizens? do you see Sikhs killing our people? Quakers or Scientologists? No only one religion MUSLIMS!!

    Do not presume to answer my questions for me. I answer yes to all of those and will add Christians into that list. Although I will exclude Quakers because I haven't seen them violent although it doesn't mean some are not.

    >>>Also, please understand God will not have mercy on your soul because you let Muslims or any other religion in our country, it is only if you accept His only begotten Son Jesus Christ!

    I never said being tolerant will put me in good standing with God, how ever considering my picture of God/Jesus is the one who helped the dying Samaritan on the road I am confident when I help with relieving the suffering of others I walk in his footsteps which is quite humbling in and of itself.

    However, you conscious pricks you and you are not even aware of it. In one breath you say being Muslim is about violence and destruction to the non muslim, yet in another breath you state "not all Muslims are violent, but a good percentage are,". So now they are violent when it suites your purpose of establishing the Christian Faith but when faced with the full implications of your own stance and the real stance of Christianity you face the moral dilemma of maybe Muslim people as a whole are not as evil or debauched as you depict, that maybe you have not seen the whole picture and speak of limited knowledge. Do not forget the Roman Empire's methods were adopted by Christianity. Rome's goal was to conqueror the World and Christianity's goal was the same only and ultimately Christianity fell back on the Sword to achieve that end. And those who objected to bloodshed, were subjected to bloodshed. The only thing changed today is the methodology has become more subtle and we have become more desensitized to it. No religion is clean from the taint of violence and bloodshed and it makes absolutely no sense to punish those who make the effort to lift some of that suffering without resorting to a method of problem solving which is genetically ingrained in the human race.
    • 475 posts
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    June 25, 2015 12:59:04 PM PDT
    Thank you dpietz. You just shared some truth with us. I do believe though if we all stop responding to the person who keeps posting personal derogatory messages then maybe we can have better, more informational forums here at Yubafoothills.com.
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    June 25, 2015 1:17:24 PM PDT
    BTW, I am a conservative Christian. I don't consider myself a bigot nor a racist.

    As a child in the 1930's a black lady was caring for my mother and a new baby. It rained one day and after it stopped raining I ask her if I could go outside to play. She said "Yes, but stay out of the mud." Well, as a naughty little girl, I went out and immediately tromped in the mud. She gave me a spanking. I told my Father when he got home from work and he said "If she spanked you I believe you needed it." Then one of my Father's employees accidentally cut off one of his thumbs. My Father rushed him, and his thumb, to the local hospital and ask that it be sewn back on. One doctor refused and my Father put up such a fuss that another doctor was brought in to sew the mans thumb back on. Recently, I spent 23 days in a Therapy Rehab Center in Yuba City. The most wonderful person who gave me personal care was a black woman from Eastern Africa. A Legal Immigrant. I will never forget her as long as I live.

    I'm off my soap box now!
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    June 25, 2015 2:59:49 PM PDT
    YubaFoothillsProgress said:
    It’s so wonderful and heart-warming to see our fellow neighbors promoting our county as bigoted, racist, intolerant and fearful of anyone who’s not a white, male, conservative, Anglo-Saxon Christian. I’m sorry, but this thread is chock full of some of the scariest thinking and most inflammatory posts that I’ve ever read on this site! Anyone that’s proud of these horrible posts has been brainwashed, is living in a bubble and has serious problems. It’s threads like these that fuel and incite some nut to take their semi-automatic and slaughter innocent people! Great, make Yuba County the next Charleston or Oklahoma City! You should be ashamed!
    YFRegress, Wow brother, you have a vivid imagination, just who's posts are you reading, I haven't read a single post mentioning bigotry, racism, intolerance or fear of any race. This thread concerns MUSLIMS which the last time I checked was a religion, not a race. The only posts I see mentioning race is folks that I highly suspect are on the left side of politics.
    The only brainwashing I have seen is the lefts posts, who it seems have been brainwashed to hate their own culture, country and founding. Really, you don't have to feel guilty about our culture, every country on the face of the planet has their own, including the Arab/MUSLIM countries. Does that make them racist?
    As far as some nut slaughtering people, that would be your bretheren the MUSLIMS. They are the ones slaughtering innocent men, women and children all around the planet. Cutting off heads, chopping people in half, literally crucifying people, setting people on fire and burning them alive, stoning people to death, drowning people, blowing people up with RPG's and any other cruel and horrible thing they can think of. All because they aren't MUSLIM or radical enough. If you dare, please take a look at this link concerning what your MUSLIM brothers are doing to people.
    http://therightscoop.com/horribly-brutal-video-isis-drowns-men-in-swimming-pool-locked-in-a-cage-shows-them-drowning-using-underwater-cameras/
    It even has color pictures and video, so you don't have to worry about it being just someones imagination, you can see it with your own eyes. If you see any other religion doing this type of thing, please feel free to post the links concerning them.
    Last but not least, that is a big time stretch you are making to equate some mad man strung out on psyco drugs, shooting innocent people in a church, with what the MUSLIMS are doing. Just so you know, it is the left that pushes kids and adults to take all these anti-depressant, anti-psychosis drugs. Which is the one common thread in the last several mass shootings. Of coarse we all know, it was the gun, it was the confederate, the way he was raised, etc. Right?
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    June 25, 2015 3:33:37 PM PDT
    Wolf, I will keep it short, there are skeletons in everyone's closet going back thousands of years, however we are talking/concerned about this century and current immigration/resettling.
    Any post of mine that states ALL MUSLIMS are violent, please let me know the post number.
    If you wish, please feel free to post any links concerning atrocities being commited by any other religion than MUSLIMS, but it should be this century/currently to be relevant.

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    June 25, 2015 3:42:32 PM PDT
    loraine said:
    Thank you dpietz. You just shared some truth with us. I do believe though if we all stop responding to the person who keeps posting personal derogatory messages then maybe we can have better, more informational forums here at Yubafoothills.com.
    You are right, in the end, the folks that support all the resettling of Muslims and the folks that don't, will have to agree to disagree!
    Thank you!
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    June 25, 2015 4:44:24 PM PDT
    KBF, I was talking about this Era. I challenge you to show me where presently this year there have been no Killings by Buddhist, Jews etc.. As to your ALL Muslims statements look at each and every post you have put here.

    The summary of your posts: The Muslim faith is all about torture and killing the non Muslim. Therefore if you are Muslim, you agree with that practice and therefore you yourself are a violent and evil person (Man, woman or child) just from the simple fact you are Muslim, and supporting them of giving them any assistances implicates you as well. As such, you are to be treated as the enemy and never to be trusted, you are against America (i.e. Christianity). Granted, not the exact wording but the Summary is Spot on. It's not my fault that following this kind of ideology leads to unacceptable consequences and puts you in a difficult spot when it comes down to walking the talk and accepting the consequences and unfavorable aspects of it. You're supposed to do your homework when you commit to an ideology and follow it to it's conclusions before jumping in fully.

    You can go on distrusting every one you think is Muslim and I'll continue to do whatever I can to make this world more compassionate and accepting to all regardless of their faith etc. Simply because that is what God, goddess, gods, Cosmos, Universe dictates be done. It's my responsibility as a Human being.

    And the World will still turn, the sun will still rise and set regardless of what we choose to believe or do.
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    June 25, 2015 6:28:51 PM PDT
    Although I'm not up to it, how about someone get the koran, and school those in doubt about the atrocities. Not since the halocaust has there been such outrageous tortures and deaths at the hands of the muslim jihadists. What say?
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    June 25, 2015 6:29:44 PM PDT
    I'd wear latex gloves if I handled the book. Really!
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    June 25, 2015 6:44:44 PM PDT
    Of course the U.S. is not blameless when it comes to human rights violations, if you can call them that. HOWEVER, we clear up our mistakes when confronted or pointed out. And our errors are so minimal when compared to the extreme Jihadists. I still (and I'm a guy) have real trouble reading and listening to the attrocities
    committed by these (no name for them, really) dirty, rotten, cowards, called extreme muslims. My thoughts, although not shared with everyone, are that ALL muslims are able to carry out the tortures and deaths....when they are called up to task. Only a very naeive (spelling) person, in my opinion would argue differently. I'm really incensed about all this. It's hard to believe. Even more incensed when I hear someone compare the U.S. to those cowards. There is not a slight comparison.
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    June 25, 2015 6:50:13 PM PDT
    Bin ladin (spelling), had said "we live to die", ....YOU, meaning us "live to live". As long as their thought process conjures up insanity, It's going to be a long fight.
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    June 25, 2015 7:51:41 PM PDT
    Wolf, Cute, just how does anyone prove there are no killings, how about the fact there are no reports of it. So, it's a little hard to show what's not there, right? On the other hand, myself and other posters have linked several reports/articles concerning your buds the loving MUSLIMS.

    Checked my posts I must have missed the one that says ALL MUSLIMS. I could find where I said MUSLIMS, some MUSLIMS or good percentage of MUSLIMS, but not ALL MUSLIMS. I would still appreciate that post number.
    That's just great, you are going to be compassionate and accepting of a religion that (SOME) seeks your destruction. Yet you are not so compassionate and accepting of those of us with a well documented and confirmed concern, that are your fellow citizens and neighbors! Wonderful!
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    June 25, 2015 7:55:39 PM PDT
    dpietz, loraine, coolbreeze, Thank you for some sane comments in an otherwise insane discussion!
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    June 25, 2015 8:17:35 PM PDT
    How do you report suspected tax fraud acivity?
    http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/How-Do-You-Report-Suspected-Tax-Fraud-Activity%3F
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    June 25, 2015 8:25:10 PM PDT
    Who, or whom are thee reporting? That's the other scary bunch.LOL.
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    June 25, 2015 9:09:15 PM PDT
    David Koresh
    Jonestown
    Joseph Smith
    Elmer Gantry (fictional satire)
    Aimee Simple McPherson
    Billy Sunday
    Father Coughlin
    Texas Tower sniper
    Timothy McVeigh
    Terry Nichols
    Abu Nidal
    Congressman Charlie Wilson
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    June 25, 2015 10:27:05 PM PDT
    coolbreeze said:
    Although I'm not up to it, how about someone get the koran, and school those in doubt about the atrocities. Not since the halocaust has there been such outrageous tortures and deaths at the hands of the muslim jihadists. What say?
    For anyone curious, apparently there are 109 verses in the Quran that call Muslims to war with non believers for the sake of Islamic rule, please see link:
    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm
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    June 26, 2015 12:13:21 AM PDT
    KBF, you are wrong. My level of compassion for you is equal to that I show Muslims or any other different Faiths. Just because you think otherwise doesn't make it so. Since you obviously skipped over my post and didn't read, let me give you my statement about the ALL Muslim posts;

    Wolf: "Granted, not the exact wording but the Summary is Spot on."

    I paraphrased and summarized, not my fault you don't like the content I reflected back.

    Once again you confuse compassion with indulgence. Just because I am compassionate doesn't mean I approve of the violence on either side. The difference between you and I is this: You would let any Muslim suffer if it were within your power to help them, simply because they are Muslim. You tell me you don't hate all Muslims and then you state Muslims follow a religion of hate and violence and because of that you are justified in not helping any Muslim (NOT EXACT WORDING-Paraphrased). There is no flexibility in this and you will never change your thinking even if it were proved in error. You are too entrenched.

    I am the opposite, but certainly not better or any worse than you either. Nor am I consistent in my compassion (alas, the cost of being human is not being perfect. Such is life.) I see only human beings, religions etc. are secondary (simply labels as to who we are-they are not definitive. So here is where we depart on the road to life. If you were suffering and I had the ability to help you in anyway I could, I would. However, if the shoe was on the other foot to obtain any help from you I would first have to adhere to a specific religious or political doctrine to even be considered a potential recipient. And from what I have seen here, should a gun be placed in your hand with instructions to shoot me there would be an above 50% chance you would do so without a second thought even if I was not a threat to you.

    So get this into your thick skull once and for all. I could care less what faith or political party you are. What concerns me is how you treat your fellow human being. "To act justly, to love Mercy and walk humbly with your God" Is the biblical instruction we are given.

    Yes, this conversation is at an end. Neither you nor I will continue to be productive in this discussion. You draw whatever conclusion you can about me or my beliefs as long as you don't misrepresent them or lie about them.
    • 873 posts
    87
    June 26, 2015 1:12:19 AM PDT
    Wolf, I have no hard feelings toward you and would help you in most any situation I could.
    I disagree with a lot of religions, as the bible says there are many that are false. However, this is America and a free life (liberty speaking), so each has to live their life as they see fit. Every man is responsible for his own salvation. I have friends of other faiths (including MUSLIMS) and get along with all and help them if needed. But do I want our government to stuff our country full with tens of thousands of a religion that has as it's mission to change and dominate our culture? NO! I would be against any religion that has a holy book that taught to kill and mame non believers. If only 1/3 of MUSLIMS are ultra radical that is too many and not worth the human suffering in our own country that would be caused.

    Though try as we might, I don't think either of us will change the others stands on this issue. Which is fine, as they say, you can't please all the people all the time.

    Lastly, sorry I have given you such a low opinion of me, but I stand behind any posts I've made and like you, I will sleep well and feel good about myself.

    I know you will, but feel free to post anytime! Peace Brother, have a blessed weekend!! :0)

  • 88
    June 26, 2015 4:44:36 AM PDT
    You can ignore other's posts as much as you want. The fact remains that this thread is disgraceful and shameful. You people are so hateful and intolerant of anything that doesn’t align with your sheltered world and you use the shield of your “religion” to validate your beliefs.

    Your false facts are derived from fear-mongering sites and you never allow any perspective or real facts to influence your rationale. You believe only what is spoon-fed to you by your conservative religious sources. You are rabid to blame others and in the process, you incite others to carry out heinous crimes. Your see no future except your own selfish version. Yes, ignorance is your driver.

    In light of your ignorance, here are some basic definitions to enlighten you about your practices:

    bigotry |ˈbigətrē|
    noun
    intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself
    (This belief permeates this thread)

    racist |ˈrāsist|
    noun
    a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
    (Last time I checked, Syria was a country with a race of people.)

    Have a nice weekend, and on Sunday, you might want to dig a little deeper in your hearts and kindle some kindness, tolerance, honesty, understanding and acceptance.
  • 89
    June 26, 2015 4:49:51 AM PDT
    Oh, here's a little study for you...And you can ignore ancient facts if you want, but the fact remains that these occurances took place. History is history, and writing your own version doesn't change what really happened!

    --

    Are Christians more violent than Muslims? What does the record say?
    Murder rate: White America, like most Christian countries in the Americas, Africa and Eastern Europe, is markedly more violent than most of the Middle East (murders per 100,000 population):
    • 0.6 Bahrain
    • 0.7 Oman
    • 0.8 United Arab Emirates
    • 0.9 Qatar
    • 1.0 Saudi Arabia
    • 1.2 Egypt
    • 1.7 Cyprus
    • 1.8 Jordan
    • 2.0 Iraq
    • 2.1 Israel
    • 2.2 Kuwait
    • 2.2 Lebanon
    • 2.3 Syria
    • 3.0 Iran
    • 3.3 Turkey
    • 3.4 WHITE AMERICA
    • 4.1 Palestine
    • 4.2 Yemen
    Terrorist attacks: According to the FBI, only 6% of the terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1980 and 2005 were carried out by Muslim extremists. Even Jewish extremists carried out more (7%).
    War: Wars with at least a million dead:
    Christian wars:
    • years: name: conservative body count in millions
    • 535-554: Gothic Wars: 5.0m
    • 790-1300: Reconquista: 7.0m
    • 1096-1272: Crusades: 2.0m
    • 1337-1453: Hundred Years’ War: 3.0m
    • 1562-1598: French Wars of Religion: 3.0m
    • 1568-1648: Dutch Revolt: 1.0m
    • 1618-1648: Thirty Years’ War: 3.0m
    • 1655-1660: Second Northern War: 3.0m
    • 1763-1864: Russian-Circassian War: 2.0m
    • 1792-1802: French Revolutionary Wars: 2.0m
    • 1803-1815: Napoleonic Wars: 3.5m
    • 1830-1903: War in Venezuela: 1.0m
    • 1882-1898: Conquests of Menelik II of Ethiopia: 5.0m
    • 1910-1920: Mexican Revolution: 1.0m
    • 1914-1918: First World War: 20.0m
    • 1917-1922: Russian Civil War: 5.0m
    • 1939-1945: Second World War: 41.5m (European deaths only)
    • 1946-1954: First Indochina War: 1.0m
    • 1950-1953: Korean War: 1.2m
    • 1955-1975: Vietnam War: 1.1m
    • 1998-2003: Second Congo War: 2.5m
    Muslim wars:
    • 1370-1405: Conquests of Tamerlane: 7.0m
    • 1681-1707: Conquests of Aurangzeb: 5.0m
    • 1967-1970: Nigerian Civil War: 1.0m
    • 1980-1988: Iran-Iraq War: 1.0m
    • 1983-2005: Second Sudanese Civil War: 1.0m
    • 1989-2001: Afghan Civil War: 1.4m
    Seven times more people have died in Christian wars: 113.8 million compared to the 16.4 million who died in Muslim wars.
    There are more Christians, but only about 50% more, nothing like seven times more.
    Western history is Eurocentric, so we know more about wars in Christian lands than in Muslim ones. But not for wars since 1900, and there the imbalance is even worse: 73.3 million compared to 4.4 millon – 17 times more dead in Christian wars.
    Some blame technology, yet the Muslim world has all the weapons the West had to kill over 100 million people. And yet it did not.
    Democide: counts those who died not through war or street crime but through the wilful in/action of government, like genocide or Mao’s Great Leap Forward.
    Christian democides of a million or more (does not count communist democides):
    • 940-1917: Russia (tsarist): 2.1m
    • 1095-1272: Crusades: 1.0m
    • 1451-1870: European slave trade: 17.3m
    • 1492-1900: Latin America: 13.8m Amerindians
    • 1600-1900: Caribbean: 10.0m slaves worked to death
    • 1618-1648; Thirty Years War: 5.8m
    • 1651-1987: British Empire: 1.1m (not counting slavery)
    • 1800-1900: Brazil: 1.5m Amazon rubber companies
    • 1900-1920: Mexico: 1.4m
    • 1933-1945: Germany (Nazis): 20.9m
    • 1945-1948: Poland: 1.6m
    Muslim democides of a million or more:
    • 400-1900: Iran: 2.0m
    • 1110-1918: Ottoman Empire: 3.9m
    • 1958-1987: Pakistan: 1.5m
    • 1983-2005: Sudan: 1.9m Nuer, Dinka, Christians, Nuba, etc
    Christians have killed eight times more people in democides than Muslims: 76.5 million compared to 9.3 million. Almost the same rate as for war.

    The mistake here lies not in the numbers but in the words “Christian” and “Muslim”. Sometimes religion is a cause – or at least an excuse – like in the bombings by Christian extremist Eric Rudolph or the genocide in Sudan. But most often it is not. Calling, say, the 9/11 terrorists “Muslim” is like calling Hitler “Christian”: true yet misleading. It is Islamophobia, not a serious attempt to understand the world as it is.

    Sources: Wikipedia, R.J. Rummel, FBI, Loonwatch, U.S. Department of Justice, List of countries by intentional homicide rate.

    • 2563 posts
    90
    June 26, 2015 9:25:31 AM PDT
    Democide. Defined as murder by government. Murder implies intent.
    What is the word to describe manslaughter by government? People die, but not by intent. For instance rural counties in the U.S. Motorists die due to poorly designed roads or lack of emergency medical support. Or by inaction from a government that claims, that's not our job. We don't know whose job it is. It isn't our job to know whose job it is.
    • 1526 posts
    91
    June 26, 2015 9:32:36 AM PDT
    YFP, my only response to you is why not visit iraq, iran, afghanistan, syria, or palestine (maybe a six mo visa, or even move there permanently), as your dissatisfaction with the U.S. is monumental. You must be very sad a lot of the time. And THAT is too bad.
    • 873 posts
    92
    June 26, 2015 12:53:44 PM PDT
    YubaFoothillsProgress said:
    You can ignore other's posts as much as you want. The fact remains that this thread is disgraceful and shameful. You people are so hateful and intolerant of anything that doesn’t align with your sheltered world and you use the shield of your “religion” to validate your beliefs. Your false facts are derived from fear-mongering sites and you never allow any perspective or real facts to influence your rationale. You believe only what is spoon-fed to you by your conservative religious sources. You are rabid to blame others and in the process, you incite others to carry out heinous crimes. Your see no future except your own selfish version. Yes, ignorance is your driver. In light of your ignorance, here are some basic definitions to enlighten you about your practices: bigotry |ˈbigətrē| noun intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself (This belief permeates this thread) racist |ˈrāsist| noun a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another. (Last time I checked, Syria was a country with a race of people.) Have a nice weekend, and on Sunday, you might want to dig a little deeper in your hearts and kindle some kindness, tolerance, honesty, understanding and acceptance.
    So says you!!
  • 93
    June 26, 2015 1:02:56 PM PDT
    That's right and so do a whole lot of others!
  • 94
    June 26, 2015 1:04:04 PM PDT
    Cooloff-
    I know it hurts you when I’m right, but your guilt-making interpretation of my emotional state is nonsense. Also, how do you know that I haven't been to one of those countries already? Stop making assumptions.

    Not sad and love the USA! Just deeply dissatisfied with people, my so-called neighbors, who are so filled with intolerance, hate, racism, bigotry, fear and falsehoods. This is what’s sad and bad!

    Given the many rulings and changes this week, our country is moving forward – You can live in the vision or you can live in a bubble. The choice is yours. The train is leaving and I know where I’m headed. Do you?
    • 873 posts
    95
    June 26, 2015 1:12:39 PM PDT
    YubaFoothillsProgress said:
    Oh, here's a little study for you...And you can ignore ancient facts if you want, but the fact remains that these occurances took place. History is history, and writing your own version doesn't change what really happened! -- Are Christians more violent than Muslims? What does the record say? Murder rate: White America, like most Christian countries in the Americas, Africa and Eastern Europe, is markedly more violent than most of the Middle East (murders per 100,000 population): • 0.6 Bahrain • 0.7 Oman • 0.8 United Arab Emirates • 0.9 Qatar • 1.0 Saudi Arabia • 1.2 Egypt • 1.7 Cyprus • 1.8 Jordan • 2.0 Iraq • 2.1 Israel • 2.2 Kuwait • 2.2 Lebanon • 2.3 Syria • 3.0 Iran • 3.3 Turk and on and on!
    WOW, you are becoming almost incoherent in your attempt to defend the indefensible. I can't believe the time and energy spent looking up facts that don't even come close to applying to the discussion. I'll bet you were great at giving math answers during history class!
    Slow down brother, take a deep breath and have a blessed weekend!! :0)
    • 1526 posts
    96
    June 26, 2015 2:22:27 PM PDT
    I don't have to board any train, I'm already living the dream, as I'm sure many others are also on this site. You are the only negative/weird/comedic poster we see on this site. You mean there are others like you? Where? Are they couching in a closet, where are these so-called thinkers like you, mr. comedian (I laugh like hell when you post, please keep it up, it's very entertaining, not so much practical or true, but very entertaining). Newsflash, no matter where you live, you're always going to hate the people there. You're way out of touch, dude. (but better than Fallon, lete night.)
    • 1526 posts
    97
    June 26, 2015 3:25:27 PM PDT
    YFP, I really don't mean to be so hard on you. I just hope you don't have an AR-15, and this site isn't your manifesto.
  • 98
    June 26, 2015 4:56:06 PM PDT
    I know that it’s been a tough week for you and your conservative friends here at YF.com. It sounds like you all are feeling a bit dazed and bruised. While your suggestion is personally uncivil and disrespectful, I’ll let it pass because I’m generous enough to consider the tough circumstances you’re under.

    Never mind me - Better to focus your worries on rogue, psychopathic nut jobs that are inflamed by this hateful, prejudiced, un-Christian-like thread!

    “Blessed?” I don’t think so.
    • 1526 posts
    99
    June 26, 2015 4:58:56 PM PDT
    Like I said, kid, livin' the dream here.
    • 873 posts
    100
    June 26, 2015 11:55:51 PM PDT
    YFRegress, If you don't start being nice, someone's going to want to trade you for one of those Plumas Lake Syrians!! :0)